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Author Topic: A view from afar on the elite  (Read 2173 times)
strathydoug
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« on: January 14, 2009, 08:57:18 AM »


Quoted from Sandy in another thread

"One of the matters which they are very interested in is how do the elite teams get selected - they just don't believe it should be the way it is being done and that teams should evolve - same opinion as most of the posters on this forum."

Are we talking about the GB Olympic Squads here or Elite teams / athletes in general?

My own view on the Olympic Squads is that if 4 athletes who are considered the best are selected like the Ladies were in Torino it's a disaster waiting to happen, but instead of me moaning about it what can be done to change this selection process? 

Much was made of the fact that the Scottish Rinks didn't perform as many would have liked at Perth in the Masters, surely an additional competition, i.e. some sort of playdown would be in order pitting the best British Rinks against each other?? After all we manage to fit it in every year for the European Champs.

Would some sort of system for entry based on results in the Scottish for the past 2 years allow entry.  Not forgetting our friends down south one entry per country and then the top teams by qualification would make an interesting competition.

Any thoughts?
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Doug
jackofalltrades
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« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2009, 09:17:34 AM »

The problem with basing qualification on the last 2 years results is....how many teams stay the same for 2 years, and then how do u decide if they do split up who gets in?!! 

I think this is why Jamie Dick didnt get in to national squad this year but i correct me if i am wrong! That team should have been in!!
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strathydoug
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« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2009, 12:39:34 PM »

Valid point re teams splitting up, although if the Olympics is every 4 years I would think that teams would get together 2 years in advance?

I've never been at the level where I could pick and choose my team or team mates for a season so I'm not sure, the rules exist for qualification year on year for the Scottish though so couldn't they be adapted?
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Doug
jmlb
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« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2009, 10:14:21 PM »

There is nothing new in Strathydoug's suggestion - that is more or less the way it was done in 1998 and that got us worse results at the Olympics - at least as far as the men were concerned!

And I still do not accept the view that the results in Torino were a disaster - as has been said before, the final round robin position of 5-4 for the women was the same as for Rhona in Salt Lake City - she was fortunate that there it got her into a play-off and the rest is history!
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John M L Brown
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strathydoug
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« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2009, 08:47:46 AM »

1998?

The ladies team did well in Nagano and from memory, and apologies if I'm wrong, the conduct of the mens team on the ice drew more column inches than their performance?

Ask yourself this though would the 2006 "Team" have managed to do what the 2002 team did and win through playoffs and the Semis to take the title?

I don't think they would personally and that is not a criticism of the Ladies in 2006 more a view on the fact they were put together rather than formed a team for the Olympics.
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Doug
onthebutton
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« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2009, 08:56:27 AM »

jmlb - It was clear for everyone to see that the "selected" womens team in Torino didn't work as a unit though.  

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jjk
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« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2009, 12:02:03 PM »

As an outsider I would say that the selection process will end now. The "Kinross" question (as someone labelled it on this site) surely means that everyone realises that selection is impossible. (To summarise; it raised the anomoly of someone in the GB olympic squad benefitting from losing a game to the 'point gathering' GB nation at the worlds or europeans.)
I cannot see anything other than an olympic playdown for the next cycle, albeit with maybe 4 to 6 scottish teams and a welsh and english team. (the benefits of such a playdown would be enormous for BRITISH curling and the profile of the sport in the national media, not the mickey mouse journalism we in Scotland are subjected to). Of course it may well be that the individual nations will still choose their reps at this event.
If funding elite teams is the way ahead (I remain unconvinced) there surely is no argument against ,for example, the english ladies team receiving funding. Look at what they are achieving on a shoestring. If the argument is that funding will improve performance surely the english ladies must have the potential to be ranked in the top 7 nations in the world and maybe, just maybe, would be GB's point gathererrs in the not too distant future.
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Zuschauer
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« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2009, 12:40:47 PM »

I find this debate very interesting, especially because Switzerland seem to be heading into the exact opposite direction. Over here the trend is, that while WC and EC may still be played out, the olympics 2014 could very well consist of a national team, drafted from a player pool (about 8 players, choosen 2 years prior to the olympics). Reasoning behind that is, that an olympics without a medal in curling would mean loss of funding of several hundred thousand pounds because Swiss Olympic would then downgrade curling as a funding sport...

On the other hand, I rather like the olympic trial system we have in place now: Basically, everyone who has represented Switzerland at worlds or Europeans in the last 4 years prior to the Olympics and met certain criteria (placed 7th or better at EC, placed 8th or better at WC, as well as having made the final round of the Swiss Champs in every year after having been to the WC/EC) is eligble to play in the Olympic trials. Depending on the number of teams entering, the mode of play will either be a double round robin and a best of three final, or maybe even a straight best of three/five.
In order to be eligble to claim that place, a team has to register with at least 3 players from the team that originally won the trial spot.

IMO, fair criteria, clear communication, should be an interesting competition next fall Smiley

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hoglinewamphray
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« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2009, 06:26:46 PM »

not the mickey mouse journalism we in Scotland are subjected to

Ahem jj, on behalf of all the team that brings the Scottish Curler to you, and the Curling Today blog, I would ask you to tone down your language.

The Scottish Curler may not always be right on what it says, but it is honest, and is certainly not 'micky mouse'. I resent your implication.

Neither, if I may say on his behalf, is Mike Haggerty who gets things about our sport into the papers whenever he can. And I can assure you this is no easy task these days.
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Robin Copland
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« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2009, 06:41:25 PM »

I do not think, as jjk suggests, that the selection process will stop, but I agree with him that there are major selection problems ahead as England and Wales produce more and more international class curlers.

Yours

Mickey Mouse Wink
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Zuschauer
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« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2009, 07:25:00 PM »

I do not think, as jjk suggests, that the selection process will stop, but I agree with him that there are major selection problems ahead as England and Wales produce more and more international class curlers.

An interesting debate, especially seeing that the English ladies are making enormous progress and the Welsh men's curling team has appeared on the international scene quite a few times also. So on that note, how long until an English/Welsh back-end player will be integrated into a future GB olympic squad (even if it is as a substitute in the beginning).

If one is going to select indivduals, rather than teams, then this may be something one would like to think about. It would at the very least be invaluable experience for the development of the sport in other regions of the UK...
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jjk
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« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2009, 07:40:57 PM »

I think i have complemented the excellent coverage in the scottish curler and on bobs blog so frequently that everyone knows that i hold your (bobs) promotion of the sport in the highest regards. My point was clearly aimed at the major media in this country we live in (scotland).  The vast majority of sport's (sic) journalists and editors in this country know nothing about curling. Curling is asignificant  sport in this country yet is ignored for the main part. Unless rangers or celtic players suddenly start turning up at curling competitions (and i can mention several who would be better doing that than arriving at their current places of work) it is unlikely that the majority of sports journalists will ever find themselves in an ice rink. Scotland is lucky to have a few sportsmen that are in the highest echelons of their sports, Hoy and Murray to name but two and I would certainly put David Murdoch (and his team) into this category yet how many sports journalists will be aware of DM's existence?
I agree that the sporting powers could do more to promote the sport and certainly incidents such as the vernon debacle do not help those of us who wish that the "mainstream" media gave our great sport the coverage and respect it deserves. I think if it was an English team that was achieving the success of team Murdoch the English media would certainly be giving the sport more exposure.
I dont know if i was including gramacho in my general reference to mickey mouse journalism but if i was then perhaps he could take a leaf out of that copey fellow's book whose commentary at perth i was so complimentary of on this site....   ( i probably should have said 'mainstream' media in my initial post and that is as close to an apology as I am going to make!!!!!)
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lonegunmen
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« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2009, 09:01:06 AM »

I heard recently that a Welsh curler that has played in many European and World championships has taken a job in Toronto this year and is planning to be playing there.  It will be interesting to see if playing in Ontario brings on his game from an already high level to one that means he can push for inclusion in a GB squad.   

On a practical note will any English/Welsh players travel to Scotland week in week out to play events?  Remember Chris Hoy had to move to Manchester to get the support he needed.

PS think Bob does a great job.
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