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Author Topic: David Murdoch  (Read 1681 times)
invicta
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« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2011, 10:25:37 PM »

JM you have me confused with someone else as I have never removed anything I've posted nor as far as I am aware did anyone else remove them - not even your good self!
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« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2011, 07:03:13 AM »

My apologies, I must have it wrong.

Many years ago it was my duty to see the beginners and corporate outings onto the ice with the usual prep. The RCCC has a formula that I was to follow, but it never worked, everyone was bored stiff and cold within minutes. I eventually developed my own formula and had them curling within fifteen minutes, and very happy and safe doing so. The essence was to explain what happened on the ice, how to fall safely and look after each other, and of course to simply use the bowls delivery with one foot remaining  in the hack.

During this period Irene Hird did a road show for the RCCC and asked for our comments, which we gave, and she too then introduced the bowls delivery into her RCCC formula. Even now the fact remains that these new curlers want to play a bit and have fun, without which they'll never be seen again. The RCCC formula does not make this likely, because there is simply too much too soon. Some RCCC coaches know this and try other ways, but on the whole the RCCC formula does not really work for new "casual" curlers. My colleagues all confirm this.

So, back to the thread, David will no doubt not be required to deal with new curlers, and when he is asked to will no doubt develop a formula that works for him and hopefully them. His job is that of Club Pro, dealing largely with more experienced curlers on a one-to-one basis. I do not see why the RCCC coaches should be upset about this, his job is a long way away from the RCCC formula for coaching beginners. My job too was a long way away from the RCCC formula that simply did not work for my situations.

As for insurance, there was once a lady who slipped and sprained an ankle, and soon proceeded to sue Macdonald Hotels for thousands because the ice was slippery. I believe someone pointed out to her that her shoes were more slippery than the ice, and the case never progressed from there. A gentleman fell once and seriously clunked his head on the ice, fortunately we were there to keep him calm and warm until the ambulance arrived. He was fine and returned the next day to thank us for our professionalism, which was nice, and I spent a day repairing the bloody hole his head had left on sheet D. Insurance was never an issue in either case, or any other case. As Invicta points out:

The insurance card is used by RCCC on occasion to get their own way, don't listen. Like all businesses ice rinks will be covered by public liability and the usual employers indemnity. So if DM is an employee as stated rest assured its not a problem.

One important point worth mentioning: If there is a clear notice on the door to the curling rink that spells out the dangers and warns curlers that they play at their own risk, the whole situation becomes a lot simpler. Add to this a quick prep session also containing the warning and insurance becomes almost obsolete. Even so, be advised that the coaching education provided by the RCCC will educate you about all the things that you can no longer do, such as touching children.
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invicta
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« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2011, 10:50:34 AM »


If there is a clear notice on the door to the curling rink that spells out the dangers and warns curlers that they play at their own risk, the whole situation becomes a lot simpler. Add to this a quick prep session also containing the warning and insurance becomes almost obsolete.

Sorry to correct you JM but this is not correct, it may suprise some but disclaimer signs are pretty much a waste of time in this litigious age that we live. They may go some way to show the ice rink was acting with due diligence but essentially are not a defence against a claim which may arise from a customer sustaining injury on the ice whilst skating or curling .
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« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2011, 11:24:36 AM »

Having discussed this matter of falling on ice with many experienced lawyers who deal with this stuff, you are probably right under some circumstances. BUT. In order for the case to hold any substance, the claimant will have to prove negligence of some kind by the rink, such as faulty ice temperature, unwarranted obstacles on the surface and so on. This is why I never had any hesitation in closing the rink during plant failures, dripping ceilings or any other possible danger.

The disclaimer and the pep talk add a considerable degree of strength to the rink's case of "due diligence". If you are saying that any customer "sustaining injury on the ice whilst skating or curling" can lodge a claim, forget it. If this were true, close all ice rinks now.
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invicta
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« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2011, 01:08:22 PM »

.

The disclaimer and the pep talk add a considerable degree of strength to the rink's case of "due diligence". If you are saying that any customer "sustaining injury on the ice whilst skating or curling" can lodge a claim, forget it. If this were true, close all ice rinks now.

With respect John times have changed and the situation has considerably altered in the last few years since the closure of FH, to the extent that absolutely anyone sustaining any injury doing absolutely anything ( ice based or not ) can, and indeed many do, lodge a claim. You only need to have the misfortune to watch daytime tv ads to see the vast amount of companies that are prepared to fight your case - fortunately most sensible people have better things to do but mark my words its just a matter of time. It is not a case of "close all ice rinks" but businesses should be aware of the extent of the problem and be correctly prepared.

Additionally, it is not up to the claimant to prove negligence but rather for the defendant to prove that they were not negligent - a subtle but very important difference.
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« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2011, 08:14:10 PM »

It is not up to the claimant to prove negligence but rather for the defendant to prove that they were not negligent - a subtle but very important difference.

I get it, guilty until proved innocent. Is this British law we're talking about? Please warn Dave to cancel his contract, he could be in deep trouble here!
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« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2011, 12:10:53 AM »

Really! sometimes people either write to rile or to show their total ignorance!!! Most of what has been written here is so out of date that it is laughable. I am a proud "qualified" coach and have attended various workshops for the groups that I work with, all of which I have enjoyed, been reassured, learnt and have made many new friends . Yes, the qualifications are generically based and standardised to SQA/UKCC (I have similar in three other sports) but they are not prescriptive and keep the doors open to new ideas and sharing of info, I have received much help and support in keeping my session fun & fresh and tailored to needs. In my experience, it is all about interpretation and your own coaching style. The RCCC is bound by funding constraints - their courses must match standards and quality - from Sportscotland. I believe that the staff (One soul) has worked hard to keep the best format for the sport of Curling and did not have the support of several dedicated staff alike other bigger sports. Having experienced Sportscotland's directives, first hand through Athletics, funding is linked throughout i.e the organisation must comply in all areas. Money is ploughed into recruitment - come&try sessions etc, Development - Skill Awards, school initiatives, Club development grants disabilities etc etc as well as Elite or the "top of the pyramid". In addition much funding is dedicated to facilities. How many rinks have received money for plant upgrades, lifts, wheelchair accessibility, or a whole new building such as Aberdeen, Dumfries or Stirling???
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