Interesting story in local Annandale paper today about plans to convert bowling area into a dedicated curling pad and keep the current rink for skating.  This will mean a 2 pad arena. Some of the figures are very worrying, it will take £1.5 million to do all the work.  Last year the Ice Bowl ran a loss of £473k which D&G council picked up, over the last 5 years the deficit has been £1.9 million also paid up the council.  Included in this figure is £190k to refurbish the kitchen last year, some kitchen! 

Does anyone know of any other council in Scotland that helps its Ice users out as much as this? 

Considering the council is running a deficit of many millions of pound wondering why they are treating the ice users of Dumfries like everything is great.

Maybe so, but lucky them to have a willing council with funds to invest. Compare this to the Kinross Curling Trust, who will own their facility and will have to find this kind of money every year from somewhere other than a local council! There is little doubt that a well-supported curling facility can pay its way, but only if it is built and run as a curling facility with no massive debts to pay off. Skating, swimming and all the other extras cost a lot more and make no money to speak of, not to mention poorly designed palaces.

Lead - That may be the case but is another curling rink going to make £400k profit to offset the 'whole' Ice Rinks loss.  Does any ice rink in Scotland make that kind of profit from curling?  If Ice Hockey or Skating is losing the majority of the money why not stop those parts and have more curling in the current arena area?


Installing another ice pad is only going to increase running costs and the demand for curling is not that great in the area or are all the current curlers going to start playing 7 days a week!!

The indoor bowling hall area could have been converted to a number of different things, indoor games hall for basketball, netball, 5 a side fitba, etc and would have much lower running costs and capital conversion costs that an ice pad.  In fact I struggle to think of a more expensive conversion, considering that the area was not designed as an ice pad what problems are going to occur during the conversion that were not budgetted for. 

Lonegunmen I see you posting on the Queens message board conscerning this as well 

I never once stood up for the financial figures that have been flung about the proposed plans.  The reason (according to whispers in the town) that ice hockey and skating continue to be played/run at the Ice Bowl is that management on the Leisure & Sport service are highly involved with their children taking part.  Curling does that not have input on the management level.

Got to agree with you also that the need for curling does not agree with the report that went in front of councillors, the ice currently sits vacant through the day except for Curlings Cool classes twice a week, the odd ladies league or senior league.  At night there is 2 sessions 6:30-8:30 and 8:30-10:30 these are in the main filled but you can get spare ice sessions dotted throughout the season

Bungle does have a point about a dedicated curling rinks and I agree with that but given the track record of the Council in running 1 ice rink I can not see it being an improvment.  From the documents I have seen the Councils own auditor ranks the Ice Bowl  'Poor' in 7 out of 12 area and the others just being 'Satisfactory' and nothing getting ranked as good.  The overall rating was a C - poor - showing major defects and/or not operating adequately. The same document show that it should be turned into a 'center of excellence.'  If the Managment team in charge can not keep it in a good state of repair even spending  many millions of pounds on it then why should we believe that the new facility should be run any better!  Why after only 12 years does the ice bowl need a new plant even after it has had many hundreds of thousands spent on it over its short like? - poor maintenance and neglect is one possible reason so why will the new facility be any different? 

Also some of the justifications for 2 rinks are just wishful thinking, with the new NCA in Kinross and Stirling's new rink along with Perth and Aberdeen how often does Dumfries think it will get National championships or event? 

If as Lead says the kids of the management team are involved in hockey and skating it is likely that Curling will be the poor relation again so things will not improve.  Even if we see an increase of say 20% curling will this pay for the hundreds of thousands of pound deficit.  If the price it at a low level to increase demand (price elasticity) then this will not cover the cost but will provide and unfair playing field for other Private run rinks in the region. 

I was at Dumfries for the Summerspiel and thoroughly enjoyed myself as did the other members of the Millport team.  The following is not a rant but I am just letting my thoughts flow a wee bit.

Curlers first and foremost need good ice, good stones and good playing conditions.  The ice, after the problem, was excellent with a good draw on both hands and I did not observe one pick.  The stones were in good condition and played consistently - I do have a problem in that I use a cue and some of the stones had fat handles which do not allow for easy release although this problem was addressed admirably.  The playing conditions were excellent, the facility was clean (the toilets were also very clean and this is not the case in all rinks) and the staff were exceptionally helpful.  The ice problem was caused by a puncture on the Ice King, something I have never heard of before, but was quickly addressed and caused no major problems.

I think that Curlers are or should be more aware of the difference between a privately owned rink and a local authority facility.  In a private rink the Curling is paramount and this normally means better facilities and keener staff.  In an LA facility the ice is normally flipover, management is by a committee and the staff are employed (normally under union rules) but not necessarily encouraged.  In a private rink cost/profit are of importance - in an LA rink the provision of the rink is political, keep the voters happy, and cost is not the prime consideration.  It is difficult if not impossible to provide the same facilities under the different management structures.

At Dumfries the staff upstairs and the staff downstairs were employed differently, I asked, but both appeared to have the wishes of the customer as a prime consideration.  Within reason anything I asked for was provided immediately.

Going forward and I would appreciate comments from JM on this one.  It would appear that the new split facility will have a skating rink and a Curling rink?  I assume that these will be run from the same ice plant?  I have been told that it is cost effective to have a swimming pool adjacent to use the waste heat from the ice plant?

If I have missed anything or offended anyone it is not deliberate but I think that a full discussion on this could be beneficial to all Curlers and rinks wherever they are.

Next year I hope to have remote controlled stones and an electric brush - getting older is a pain in more ways and places than one and I hope that Graham and his gang continue although I doubt if they can improve)

lonegunmen - if you are unhappy with the way that D & G is being run why don't you stand for election to the Council?  It is everyones democratic right to do so.

Sandy - I could stand for election but there is perhaps a reason politicians are not the most popular people in our fair land just now and I do not want to be tarred with that brush.  Some do a good job but from my experiance a lot are in it for the wrong reason or not up to the job.  The decision with the ice bowl proves that a lot are happy to throw away tax payers money as if there is no tomorrow and let the next lot pick up the pieces. 

Blackie - this is a curling forum and since the ice bowl is a curling rink I think how it is run and funded is a perfectly valid topic of debate, politics in sport, funding etc have all been debated here before - dare I mention Vernon.  this forum has been used to talk about the summerspiel so you can't have only the good thing mentioned and the bad things covered up, ie who paid for rink!!  The councils own document shows every user to the Ice Bowl is subsidised by the tax payers of D&G did Graham Sloan thank the tax payers in him closing speach?