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Author Topic: Kinross Curling Trust  (Read 23089 times)
JohnMinnaar
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« Reply #135 on: November 13, 2010, 02:56:37 PM »

Strange, this topic has not been addressed for some eighteen months! Perhaps the NCA thread has covered the necessary.

However, the KCT will soon have an annual meeting, where serious matters may -- or may not -- be discussed. Hard as I've tried, I cannot understand what is going on. I have studied the accounts presented by Bob Tait, dated 31 July 2010 I believe. I'm sorry, these figures do not tally with what I have heard, some of the KCT reports/updates/newsletters don't exist, and unless they've started paying bills on 1 August there is something wrong here.

Also, Jamie Montgomery is resigning from his position as a Trustee, when he himself vowed to see the thing through -- did he jump, was he pushed, or has he sold his Big House and can afford to go on holiday again?

The impression I get, and it is very clear to me, is that some individuals are deperately struggling to keep this project (or should I say body) alive and going somewhere, refusing to accept that it is not going anywhere. It is a great sadness to me, because it held all the promise of something really good for curling. Now? I don't know.
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Dunoonrock
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« Reply #136 on: November 13, 2010, 07:50:42 PM »

I heard from one source last week that Kinross Curling Trust or maybe its is Jamie Montgomerie that they have or have not persued the Land Court about the use of the site for the new ice rink.
What a pity that the new Gogar facility could have been up and running. Although it might have had an effect on the viability of Murrayfield.
May be under the new CEO it might be time to call time on the venture before too much money is waisted.
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« Reply #137 on: November 18, 2010, 02:26:17 AM »

TBH I dont think this will ever happen , at least not in my lifetime.
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lonegunmen
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« Reply #138 on: November 18, 2010, 02:26:58 PM »

In this economic climate I am not holding my breath for progress. 
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JohnMinnaar
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« Reply #139 on: February 01, 2011, 08:14:29 AM »

Following their AGM last month, Bob has the following mention here:

http://skipcottagecurling.blogspot.com/2011/01/kinross-curling-trust-agm.html

And the full report (as much as we're allowed to know) is here:

http://scotgreen.info/kinrosscurlingtrust.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=90:kct-agm-update&catid=1:news

The underlying problems remain. They need to raise £150k to proceed, they need planning sorted, they still have not published a credible business plan, they are not saying who is going to pay nearly £7m for it, and so it goes on. Bob might think the project is not dead yet, but the coffin is waiting. Very sad, what a disaster.
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JohnMinnaar
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« Reply #140 on: February 22, 2011, 10:55:36 AM »

This information could have been made public long ago, but I chose to wait in the interests of the businesses involved. When a query was posted on the forum regarding this matter it was quickly removed, for the same reason, although the information was already at that time being circulated. Some background can be found on the forum here:

http://scottishcurlingforum.co.uk/the-curling-rink/the-proposed-nca/msg12991/#msg12991

When I first met Jamie Montgomery some years ago, I did my research on the internet and he was, by all accounts, an important local landowner. Kinross House, Loch Leven, two hotels and golf courses – but not much else. It worried me, because I could not see where the money came from to look after these properties. I assumed, wrongly perhaps, that there was income from somewhere. Gradually it became clear that he was heavily in debt, especially after buying the Windlestrae, but of course that was how business was done in those days when everyone bragged about the size of their overdrafts.

Now, searching the internet reveals very little. Kinross House, it appears, has been sold and wants to reinvent itself as a smart hotel of sorts, yet Jamie is still (according to the planning application http://193.63.61.24/WAM133/showCaseFile.do?appType=DC&appNumber=10/02099/FLL) the registered owner. It has also become clear that all the Montgomery properties in Kinross that generate an income and hopefully a profit are under new management, rebranded as the Green Hotel Golf and Leisure Resort, and the Montgomeries are not part of that management. However, the new website does state that the resort is owned and operated by the Montgomery Hotel Group, yet  it does not state who now owns this group.

Considering that Jamie has promoted himself as the "driving force behind the project" of the NCA, I am now becoming confused and deeply worried. The KCT is in some kind of partnership with Jamie to build the NCA on his land, which he may or may not fully own, yet Jamie is no longer on the board of the KCT, Kinross House is no longer his, or is it, and his businesses are it seems under someone else's control. So what is the status of the NCA project, the KCT and the RCCC in Kinross? Are we being told the truth, or are they in fact so far down the chute that the project has no hope of success? The local curlers, I understand, are very reluctant to resume their fundraising activities until they know the truth, or at least know what they are raising funds for. The internet and newspapers have nothing to offer and questions to the board go unanswered because no-one seems to know, or be prepared to speak.

I welcome any relevant information, even by private email, with confidentiality assured. If they can operate in secret, so can I. But surely the time has now come for the RCCC and KCT to come clean, put ALL the facts on the table, and see what is left worth saving. Or scrap the project, go back to the beginning and start all over again, which is the better way.
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jjk
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« Reply #141 on: February 22, 2011, 11:15:08 AM »

Scarcely worth commenting on but it made me smile John.... "owner of a country estate, two hotels, a loch, two golf courses but not much else"....
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invicta
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« Reply #142 on: February 22, 2011, 12:14:29 PM »

JM - its difficult to hide these things, a quick trawl of companies house should give you the info you crave
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JohnMinnaar
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« Reply #143 on: February 22, 2011, 06:37:20 PM »

Scarcely worth commenting on but it made me smile John.... "owner of a country estate, two hotels, a loch, two golf courses but not much else"....

I suppose what I am asking is "what does he still own now". Forget the country estate, that's been sold. The rest is under "new management". Should the RCCC/KCT really be in negotiation with someone who needs to generate income, let alone profit, considering the dubious affairs of the past two years?
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slipsliding
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« Reply #144 on: February 22, 2011, 11:35:44 PM »

Hi My Unbiased Friend,
Suggest you be careful about what you write on the site. Your comments regarding members of the Trust must be coming close to libel or perhaps they will be like most of the forum members and just ignore your biased drivel.
However I must admit I to don’t agree with Kinross any more than you but hopefully my view is for justifiable curling reasons.   
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« Reply #145 on: February 23, 2011, 10:34:00 AM »

Hi My Unbiased Friend,
Suggest you be careful about what you write on the site. Your comments regarding members of the Trust must be coming close to libel or perhaps they will be like most of the forum members and just ignore your biased drivel.
However I must admit I to don’t agree with Kinross any more than you but hopefully my view is for justifiable curling reasons.   


I agree with this post.

John Minaar is treading very dangerous ground here. He is also making some very large assumptions. Just because the Montgomery family have sold (or are in the process of selling) Kinross House does not, by a long chalk, mean that they have sold the Kinross Estate.
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JohnMinnaar
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« Reply #146 on: February 23, 2011, 10:42:39 AM »

He is also making some very large assumptions. Just because the Montgomery family have sold (or are in the process of selling) Kinross House does not, by a long chalk, mean that they have sold the Kinross Estate.

Please, may I clarify. I am NOT making assumptions of any kind, I am simply asking questions based entirely on factual information. I have NOT suggested that they have sold Kinross Estate or anything other than Kinross House, which is public knowledge as far as the facts are public. It is also fact that the hotels, etc. are under new management, I understand officially from last month.

Please do not accuse me of lying, the facts are largely common knowledge.
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jjk
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« Reply #147 on: February 23, 2011, 10:58:33 AM »

What is the relevance of "under new management" John. What are you trying to say?  Managers change in hotels daily as in all other walks of life. I would start questioning your sources. This needs no further comment.
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Wreckingball
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« Reply #148 on: February 23, 2011, 02:52:53 PM »

He is also making some very large assumptions. Just because the Montgomery family have sold (or are in the process of selling) Kinross House does not, by a long chalk, mean that they have sold the Kinross Estate.

Please, may I clarify. I am NOT making assumptions of any kind, I am simply asking questions based entirely on factual information. I have NOT suggested that they have sold Kinross Estate or anything other than Kinross House, which is public knowledge as far as the facts are public. It is also fact that the hotels, etc. are under new management, I understand officially from last month.

Please do not accuse me of lying, the facts are largely common knowledge.


I don't see any posts accusing you of lying. Why would you say such a thing?

Here's your earlier quote:

Scarcely worth commenting on but it made me smile John.... "owner of a country estate, two hotels, a loch, two golf courses but not much else"....

I suppose what I am asking is "what does he still own now". Forget the country estate, that's been sold. The rest is under "new management". Should the RCCC/KCT really be in negotiation with someone who needs to generate income, let alone profit, considering the dubious affairs of the past two years?



The "country estate" has not been sold as far as I know
The GHG has a new General Manager to replace Bruce Robbie. Big deal.
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« Reply #149 on: February 23, 2011, 03:09:37 PM »

Oh dear oh dear - some people can't seem to grasp that making unsubstantiated statements, or even repeating rumours and innuendo gleaned from whatever dubious sources, could land them in hot water. KCT has provided a public update of the position (not just to Trust members but to anyone who wants to read it) on their website. Until the land issue is resolved there is nothing more to be said or done about the plans - I would have thought anyone could have figured that out. KCT has advised that there will be an outcome re the land issue within a few months. If that is favourable, then of course ask questions about what happens next.

Jamie Montgomery can defend himself if he deems it worth wasting the time on such drivel!
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