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Author Topic: Munro v Brown  (Read 1956 times)
hoglinewamphray
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« on: July 06, 2011, 01:45:12 PM »


I note that Lord Doherty's opinion on the defamation case brought by Gail Munro against Derek Brown is now online here:
http://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/opinions/2011CSOH117.html

Lord Doherty has found in Gail's favour, and has awarded damages of nearly £22,000.

Bob
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Sandy Morton 1
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« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2011, 01:48:54 PM »

I always had absolute faith in Gail and I am absolutely delighted with the result!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Steve Scanlan
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« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2011, 01:56:44 PM »

I always had absolute faith in Gail and I am absolutely delighted with the result!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EXCELLENT NEWS
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jjk
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« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2011, 04:03:18 PM »

mmmmmmm.....   This doesnt read especially well for the organisation behind scottish curling teams.  Whatever the rights and wrongs £20k is not a lot....who is liable for the costs?
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Sandy Morton 1
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« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2011, 04:12:10 PM »

Last line in the legal statement is -  "I reserve meantime all questions of expenses".
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Steve Scanlan
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« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2011, 04:13:37 PM »

mmmmmmm.....   This doesnt read especially well for the organisation behind scottish curling teams.  Whatever the rights and wrongs £20k is not a lot....who is liable for the costs?

I think the cost is not really the issue (although I think the individual should pay all costs), it is the fact that right was seen to be done? and yes Curling suffers in the end
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jjk
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« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2011, 04:29:26 PM »

I have read the report and if i were the pursuer I am not sure I would be too happy with the award or indeed the judges statement on expenses... indeed i am not sure what that means...does it require another petition?
I think the report needs read very very carefully.
For sure the "judge" has no doubt that Gail was wronged but between being dropped and DB's statement to the press there seems to be a lot of muddy water. Maybe Gail will be happy to just draw a line under it......maybe...
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hoglinewamphray
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« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2011, 05:20:15 PM »

I have read the report and if i were the pursuer I am not sure I would be too happy with the award or indeed the judges statement on expenses... indeed i am not sure what that means...does it require another petition?

JJ
I did wonder too what this meant. It simply means that the Court will rule on expenses sometime in the future. Gail's solicitors will put in a claim.

There is the (small) possibility that Derek will appeal Lord Doherty's opinion, but my legal advisor/friend suggests this is unlikely given that the judge's decision was based on his assessment of the witnesses and their statements, and that is unlikely to change.

Bob
 
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jjk
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« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2011, 06:20:26 PM »

Thanks Bob......that will surely be the crux of the matter!
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porsche911
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« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2011, 07:57:41 PM »

If there is no appeal, who actually pays out this money. The man himself, his employer at the time or is there some kind of insurance that covers payments?
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Devils Advocate
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« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2011, 09:47:05 AM »

Bet they dont put that up on the RCCC website news !

But the question remains whether the RCCC will put out a retraction and apology? After all they cant second guess the findings of a Judge can they?

Also what must the USA assoc be thinking about their new employee?
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OlympicDreamer
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« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2011, 10:59:52 AM »

Bet they dont put that up on the RCCC website news !

But the question remains whether the RCCC will put out a retraction and apology? After all they cant second guess the findings of a Judge can they?

Also what must the USA assoc be thinking about their new employee?

DA  I'm with you on this one and just so that you know the Americans love their man (see link) and as far as i'm concerned they can keep him!

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/curling/story/2011/07/06/sp-scottishcurler.html
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jjk
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« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2011, 12:52:08 PM »

Gail was treated shabbily but I think derek was also a victim of the system...  it was not the first time someone was dropped after all...but it may be the first time a player has decided loyalty to her team (and skip) was more important than her individual ambition (i know others think differently and I respect their opinions).
The CBC article cited above states that Gail won her case that "she had been pulled from the team" in Vernon. Of course this is not the crime in Scotland. The crime would have been if DB had not pulled her from the team. There can be no doubt he was under pressure to take this action by his employers, whether by explicit or implicit instruction will never be known.
What happened between Gail being dropped and the press conference is bad management and communication and that led to DB making the defamatory comments. ( I am not excusing the "i'm pulling rank etc" but like i say that is not the crime here). The real culpability here is not within the courts remit...but we have had that discussion before....often.
DB is a convenient scapegoat but there are much bigger issues. It is interesting that no-one on here thinks the "selection" of teams for the euro playdowns is even worthy of comment.
I wish Derek all the best in the USA.
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supersub81
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« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2011, 02:49:50 PM »

I am not sure that you are getting the right point JJK.  Gail was never suing over the fact that she was dropped/pulled, however you want to put it, from the team but the fact that incorrect information was stated in a press conference and in various newspapers around the world, which at the time may well have been believed by DB to be true, but has caused great distress to Gail over the last 3 years.  Her reputation was left in ruins due to false information and perhaps if an apology had been forthcoming sooner then a court case would never have been necessary.  Justice has been done and Gail can now get her life back on track as the well known, great curler she always was, is and always will be.
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jjk
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« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2011, 12:09:46 PM »

I absolutely do get the point supersub81...I was not sure the CBC headline did. Gail was awarded damages because DB said she refused to play. The amount of damages was 40% of what Gail was seeking because ( I assume) the judge ruled that DB may well have believed what he was saying was correct. In my opinion the judge should have ruled that DB was obliged to speak with Gail directly between games rather than depending on a sub-ordinate which makes the whole judgement flawed in my humble opinion. However we must take it that there was no obligation on DB to do so. And THAT is the crux of my argument.

There are ways that an athlete who is your national champion should be treated. It is patently clear there were no safeguards that ensured that the "minimum" respect and courtesies deserved by Gail (or any athlete) would be shown. For the national champion to be dropped there should be a clear procedure set in stone. To be announced out of the blue during a de-brief is just the worst thing I can imagine ever happening to any participant in any sport. It is disgusting.
To be treated as she was is down to more than one man. It is born of a system that completely lacks respect for your national champions and has done so for a number of years.
Whatever anyone thinks of DB you can bet he was under immense pressure (due to precedent if nothing else) to drop Gail and that is the only defence of DB I make. It is obvious he did not have the man management skills/ training or indeed the instruction neccessary to deal with this situation. He is a convenient scapegoat for a management structure that was completely flawed and the buck for that should lie elsewhere.

For the avoidance of doubt I am not in any way denying the hardship and trauma suffered by Gail or the fact that it is particullarly galling given all that Gail, in particular, and her family in general have done for Scottish curling over the years. She deserved better.
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