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Author Topic: Vernon Report  (Read 7174 times)
Lottie
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« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2009, 04:55:23 PM »

Well that is quite a report.

It makes it clear that there were a lot of communication problems. Communication between the five players broke down and communication between the coaches wasn’t perfect either.

Would the situation have been avoided if communication was better? To be honest I still think it would have happened as they had the situation where a player wasn’t playing well and the team needed to gte some wins, but maybe it would have been less stressful and protracted if the communication hadn’t been so bad.

It is clear that there was some naivety within the team. Yes they were there as Team Munro but at Worlds you are Team Scotland and how Team Scotland plays affects the ranking and in turn Olympic points. It is also appears that one player was resented by a couple of others and this led to a division within the team.

In my opinion don’t put yourself forward to play for the Scottish title if you are not prepared to be Team Scotland and focus on the responsibilities that come with it.  It is competitive sport, there is no place for the childish behaviour that went on. They are adults and things should have been dealt with in a mature manner.

Hopefully lessons have been learnt.

£15,000 that cost..............yikes rather a lot of money Roll Eyes Shocked
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Sandy Morton
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« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2009, 04:56:03 PM »

Have to agree with WW1981 - for £15K answers and blame should have been given - imvho.
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JohnMinnaar
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WWW
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2009, 05:00:49 PM »

Sandy, that was not his remit. However, while lawyers are trained not to read too much between the lines (although I'm sure they're very good at it!), we are allowed, and equally competent. The answers and blame are clear to see.....
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R.I.T
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« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2009, 05:07:43 PM »
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lonegunmen
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« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2009, 07:47:26 PM »

Good to see the report finally out and a cost has been included, £15,000 looks like money well spent!!

How can this be seen as money well spent.  The report does not tell us anything we did not already know???  No blame was apportioned to any one party.  In  my view it is "sweeping it under the carpet"  It has cost £15,000 with no resolution.  I can think of better things that £15,000 could have been spent on!!!!!

WW, I was being Ironic! Think next year I will take £2 off my RCCC membership as I don't want to pay for lawyers or might not pay it at all if it is going to get frittered away on reports.
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???
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« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2009, 10:28:36 PM »

to Quote the RCCC Statement
The actions outlined below are intended to guard against any similar future incident although ultimately this depends on the conduct of players, coaches and support staff selected to represent our country.

Should we read into this that there will no longer be a qualifying process for determining the teams who will represent Scotland or is it just another RCCC blunder?
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wee eddie
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Now ~ This is closer to reality!


« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2009, 11:22:08 AM »

That we only fielded 3 Coaches!

While the Team seem to have had problems among themselves, I had not realised that the Coaches were at each others throats in "what appears to have been" a "Mother & Father" of a Power Struggle.

I had always considered that there was "Our Team" and it's Support Staff.

It appears that the Support Staff did not see it that way. They seem to have considered that their decisions were more important than those of the Team and it's members.

In Team Scotland, the only people in the "Limelight" should have been "The Players". It appears that the Coaches were not party to that scenario.

I think that I understand Rhona, as an ex-Skip, she has been accustomed to people doing as she asked/told, and she sort of expected that that was the way things were going to be. To my mind the Coaches had spent too long reading the back pages of the Red Tops and considered that they had a similar status to that of a Football Coach.

That's my comment done ~ While my speculation was not 100% correct, I feel that I was not a million miles from actuality.

My Conclusion: Maybe we should attach as much attention to the choosing of our Coaches as we do to the choosing of the Players.
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Don't dream it ~ be it
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« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2009, 11:34:52 AM »

In my opinion don’t put yourself forward to play for the Scottish title if you are not prepared to be Team Scotland and focus on the responsibilities that come with it.  It is competitive sport, there is no place for the childish behaviour that went on. They are adults and things should have been dealt with in a mature manner.

Hello Lottie, welcome back from under your stone. It's quite intriguing to try and work out where you are coming from. At what stage did any of the players behave childishly? I didn't see any mention of that in the 102 pages. In my opinion, and it seems Curling Today's opinion, neither of the girls refused to play for their country. The National Coach decided to play with three players. He had plenty of opportunity to correct that and chose not to. Neither of them were asked to return to the ice. How does that have any bearing on whether the players are prepared to play for their country or not. You've obviously made your mind up and have totally disregarded the plain facts.
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lonegunmen
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« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2009, 12:37:36 PM »

In my opinion don’t put yourself forward to play for the Scottish title if you are not prepared to be Team Scotland and focus on the responsibilities that come with it.  It is competitive sport, there is no place for the childish behaviour that went on. They are adults and things should have been dealt with in a mature manner.

Hello Lottie, welcome back from under your stone. It's quite intriguing to try and work out where you are coming from. At what stage did any of the players behave childishly? I didn't see any mention of that in the 102 pages. In my opinion, and it seems Curling Today's opinion, neither of the girls refused to play for their country. The National Coach decided to play with three players. He had plenty of opportunity to correct that and chose not to. Neither of them were asked to return to the ice. How does that have any bearing on whether the players are prepared to play for their country or not. You've obviously made your mind up and have totally disregarded the plain facts.

I read it another way, that the vice said she was not going to play with a different skip so refused to play.  Given that the team was on 8 straight loses u have to look at doing something different! They did something different with only 3 players and started winning! Think faults on both sides and no one comes out of it looking good.
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Odin
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« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2009, 01:40:41 PM »

Ok, here is my take on it. In my opinion there seems to be one person who is mostly to blame for this debacle and that is or national coach, or soon to be known as our National embarrassment. On the face of it, it would appear that Derek Brown struggles with managing to tie his shoe laces, never mind managing our national teams. How many times does he say that he made the decision to pull rank. His job is not to pull rank but to manage the team and have them running as a well oiled coherent unit.As a manager he should have been using his people skills to keep things on track. Speaking to Rhona and Gail in private, discussing options and strategies for the team to achieving better results and to find the best way forward. No that all seems a little to much for our National coach to manage. There are many other factors that come in to this situation as well, i am not blind to this fact, but i put it to you that if Mike Hay had still been the National coach and the same five players had gone this situation would never have arose.
So to all you people who still think the Royal club should be dancing to the Olympic association tune, let this be a warning. With people like Derek Brown at the Helm there will be a lot more of this type of nonsense to come.
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voila
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« Reply #25 on: March 07, 2009, 02:03:45 PM »

Ok, here is my take on it. In my opinion there seems to be one person who is mostly to blame for this debacle and that is or national coach, or soon to be known as our National embarrassment. On the face of it, it would appear that Derek Brown struggles with managing to tie his shoe laces, never mind managing our national teams. How many times does he say that he made the decision to pull rank. His job is not to pull rank but to manage the team and have them running as a well oiled coherent unit.As a manager he should have been using his people skills to keep things on track. Speaking to Rhona and Gail in private, discussing options and strategies for the team to achieving better results and to find the best way forward. No that all seems a little to much for our National coach to manage. There are many other factors that come in to this situation as well, i am not blind to this fact, but i put it to you that if Mike Hay had still been the National coach and the same five players had gone this situation would never have arose.
So to all you people who still think the Royal club should be dancing to the Olympic association tune, let this be a warning. With people like Derek Brown at the Helm there will be a lot more of this type of nonsense to come.

Great post Odin.....couldn't agree more
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voila
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« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2009, 02:12:09 PM »

Ok, here is my take on it. In my opinion there seems to be one person who is mostly to blame for this debacle and that is or national coach, or soon to be known as our National embarrassment. On the face of it, it would appear that Derek Brown struggles with managing to tie his shoe laces, never mind managing our national teams. How many times does he say that he made the decision to pull rank. His job is not to pull rank but to manage the team and have them running as a well oiled coherent unit.As a manager he should have been using his people skills to keep things on track. Speaking to Rhona and Gail in private, discussing options and strategies for the team to achieving better results and to find the best way forward. No that all seems a little to much for our National coach to manage. There are many other factors that come in to this situation as well, i am not blind to this fact, but i put it to you that if Mike Hay had still been the National coach and the same five players had gone this situation would never have arose.
So to all you people who still think the Royal club should be dancing to the Olympic association tune, let this be a warning. With people like Derek Brown at the Helm there will be a lot more of this type of nonsense to come.

I do recall Mike Hay dropping Hammy at the Olympics in 2002. The big difference there was that Hammy dropped down to vice skip and still played in the team.......nothing as rash as Mr Brown's efforts.
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HHS
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« Reply #27 on: March 07, 2009, 02:44:52 PM »

Ok, here is my take on it. In my opinion there seems to be one person who is mostly to blame for this debacle and that is or national coach, or soon to be known as our National embarrassment. On the face of it, it would appear that Derek Brown struggles with managing to tie his shoe laces, never mind managing our national teams. How many times does he say that he made the decision to pull rank. His job is not to pull rank but to manage the team and have them running as a well oiled coherent unit.As a manager he should have been using his people skills to keep things on track. Speaking to Rhona and Gail in private, discussing options and strategies for the team to achieving better results and to find the best way forward. No that all seems a little to much for our National coach to manage. There are many other factors that come in to this situation as well, i am not blind to this fact, but i put it to you that if Mike Hay had still been the National coach and the same five players had gone this situation would never have arose.
So to all you people who still think the Royal club should be dancing to the Olympic association tune, let this be a warning. With people like Derek Brown at the Helm there will be a lot more of this type of nonsense to come.

I do recall Mike Hay dropping Hammy at the Olympics in 2002. The big difference there was that Hammy dropped down to vice skip and still played in the team.......nothing as rash as Mr Brown's efforts.

As I recall Hammy was dropped entirely from the team, maybe not in the first instance, and correct me if i'm wrong but was Derek Brown not there in some sort of hingers-on capacity??
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seniorsview
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« Reply #28 on: March 07, 2009, 03:31:21 PM »
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I was surprised to find that neither the National coach or in fact any of the coaches present appeared to be aware of the fact that you could play with three players until they checked the rules.
Of the National Coach I would be interested to know if indeed any of his three employers were aware of the fact that they had appointed ( in his opinion) a person with sole responsibility for who played in a competition of which he did not understand the rules.
Perhaps it also reflects on the overall management of the sport that they could actually justify the cost of sending these coaches to Vancouver without them having the comfort and knowledge that at least their full time paid employee, never mind the rest, understood the rules of the competition he had by his own claim full authority over.
It is an unbelievable situation to find none of the employed coaches kept minutes or at least a written record of events and meetings during this period.
From an employer’s point of view how do they measure their employee’s performance during these events, as there appears to be no formal processes are in place to record any actions taken from which to assess if indeed the coaches did contribute to the team’s performance?
Perhaps of course the management in attendance may have view these events as a jolly good jolly and therefore the coaches may feel they are entitled to the same behaviour.
Finally Rhona attended Vancouver as a volunteer coach and not an employee and from the support she appears to have received from the paid coaches, in future anyone else considering in doing the same should check out, before accepting, the washing line they are likely to be hung on should anything go wrong.     
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HHS
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« Reply #29 on: March 07, 2009, 03:41:22 PM »

Gyn-on-yirsel Seniorsview - GREAT POST

I believe there is more jolly's going on at the moment with Nancy, Kelly and Lorna out in Vancouver.  Perhaps this is the wrong thread but what message does this send to the other 4 potential players?  Why are all 6 not there, if any of them have to be there at all?
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