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Author Topic: Thursday evening at the Le Gruyère European Curling Championships in Aberdeen.  (Read 1626 times)
snowball
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« on: December 10, 2009, 11:59:27 PM »


“that was probably the trickiest sheet of ice I’ve ever played on in an arena.  You just couldn’t put the brush down and make a shot at one point.  It either took off and swung eight feet or it ran straight.  It was extremely difficult and very frustrating.  It made us look silly at times, but it wasn’t through bad throws or lack of concentration, it was just the ice conditions”.


whats going on?
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JohnMinnaar
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« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2009, 08:01:19 AM »

whats going on?

Well now, what's new, you might say. The loser blaming the "ice conditions"?

I wasn't there, and I have no feedback from anyone throughout the week. What I say now is my own observation and experience. There are three main reasons why a sheet of ice should play as described, and why many stones through the week have "wrecked", or clipped guards, or behaved erratically.

One: the ice surface itself. The technicians in charge of this, Mark Shurek and Scott Henderson, are experienced, extremely competent and well respected. For them to produce an ice surface that is not consistent, level and at optimum temperature is not really an option. In my own experience it is quite difficult to create an ice surface that should cause stones to behave in this way, so we can safely rule out the ice surface as provided by the technicians.

Two: the pipework below the ice. The Linx was refurbished, but I do not believe the floor was replaced. If it has been replaced, the pipework will have been installed with laser technology and will be superior to what had been there before, so rule that out. If it is still fitted with the original pipes, it is possible that these are not level and that there can be runs, where one pipe can be deeper than others and the ice surface therefore marginally warmer. This can cause the problem described, but the fact is that players of this standard will read it very quickly and everyone will know about it after a day or two. No evidence of this has been offered, so rule that out too, but not completely.

Three: the stones, or the running bands of the stones, both width and texture. Over the past few years there has been much debate over the sanding of stones, where the texture of the running bands is changed by the use of sand paper. I am against this practice, as it is expensive, unpredictable and unnecessary, whilst others have been determined to push the cause. Yes, it does work, but it is an imprecise science at the very best. This imprecise science can even be found on YouTube, where two guys demonstrate how to do it, or rather how not to do it, because they weren't doing it very well. If the sanding is done by an expert, such as the manufacturer and his best worker, all new stones are delivered with such a finish that is reasonably consistent and perfectly playable. For the use of stones in an arena environment it is common to provide stones with a finish specified by the technician in charge, or the agent working for the ECF, to enable the stones to curl well. Such stones will usually be "played in" somewhere before the competition, but not always.
So, if a set of stones is newly sanded, the finish will last for a few weeks and gradually mature into a reasonable consistency. They will not be matched into pairs or sets and will not mature evenly, and during that period anything can happen.

I have no information on the stones used in Aberdeen, but that is where I would look for the problems. It is just possible that sanded stones will become a thing of the past, with a set of stones allowed to naturally mature and matched into pairs and sets that can be played with confidence. Until then the players will blame the ice.
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Sandy Morton
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« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2009, 10:55:58 AM »

As far as I know the stones being used at Aberdeen were the ones stored at Greenacres so I doubt if they were new - they were being taken from Greenacres on the Wednesday before the Europeans started.  Ask Richard Harding - he should know.
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jmlb
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« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2009, 04:31:39 PM »

We were told at the WCF meetings that the WCF stones have been rematched into new "consignments" and that the stones here in the A hall are the first new consignment made up for 5 sheets.They will have 4 other consigments - 2 for 4 sheets, another one for 5 sheets and one for 6 sheets.

These stones have all been back to Kays for standardisation of the running bands - decreasing the differnces in width and area to reduce the variation among the stones.

We had some very interesting talks at the meetings from Leif Ohman of the WCF into the ways in which they were seeking to improve the stones and the testing of them.

If this problem quoted only occurred on Thursday why did it not appear the rest of the week?
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« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2009, 04:34:59 PM »

I have no information on the stones used in Aberdeen, but that is where I would look for the problems. It is just possible that sanded stones will become a thing of the past, with a set of stones allowed to naturally mature and matched into pairs and sets that can be played with confidence. Until then the players will blame the ice.

STOP PRESS

Word has reached me that there have been problems in the floor of the Linx this week, causing heaving, which is keeping the ice technicians up all night to try and keep the surface playable. The same source assures me that the stones are fine and playing to specification. Having studied my comments above about sanded stones, I believe they are still valid and will not edit the post. However, apologies if I caused anyone to think that the stones in Aberdeen were in fact the cause.

So now I have to ask myself, why should a floor heave when it has not been frozen for months? Is this an old problem of the Linx? Can anyone tell me more?
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The Phantom Nuisance
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« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2009, 12:37:50 AM »

I cant say for sure if the linx arena had all the mod cons of insulation to stop permafrost. If not or if there is a weak spot then this may be a contributor to the heaving. Even if there was only a little permafrost and it only went so far down it would then heave back up causing the problem. bearing in mind that the arena is about 50 ft from the waters edge this could be a factor too. I believe ( I may be wrong ) this is the first time they have had curling in the linx as it was only used for hockey , figure skating etc so this problem could of gone unnoticed.
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Sandy Morton
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« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2009, 10:53:12 PM »

Don't know about heave and permafrost and other technical ice matters but if I remember correctly the stones were tested/matched at Greenacres a few months ago. I wasn't lucky enough to see it being done but I did see the machine which threw 2 sheets of stones at the same time to see how they individually behaved.
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« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2009, 08:03:11 AM »

We can safely assume that the stones were matched, as well as they could be matched, and the rest is another matter. I did watch some of the final and can tell you that the stones were certainly aggressive with huge draws, but I could not see any real inconsistency during that game, on that sheet of ice.

Cast your minds back to Paisley. I managed to see the floor a week prior to the Worlds Ladies and could not believe my eyes, the level was several inches out and the staff were desperately trying to fix the problem. The weather turned nasty on them too, resulting in massive humidity and consequent frost. There too the ice technicians had to perform miracles to keep the competition alive, not to mention the Seniors at Greenacres where Scott worked round the clock to save the day. These serious problems are not spoken of in public, and the problems at the Linx will not be spoken of much either. Paisley resulted in closure, Greenacres had to invest in new plant and equipment and the Linx -- after a costly refurbishment -- will hopefully be able to continue as a skating facility. And then there are many other rinks around Scotland that are permanently closed, simply because refurbishment was not an option, and the few that are refurbishing (Stranraer). Curling facilities all over Scotland are in poor shape, with only the lucky few able to continue. Until this very real problem is fully and accurately addressed, there will continue to be embarrassing disasters during competitions.

Of course they tell us every event was a success and something to be proud of. And they forge ahead trying to build an NCA at vast expense, when the money should be used to build more ordinary, well-equipped curling rinks, before it is too late and people have nowhere to curl. All is not well, yet they insist that it is. Sad.
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