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(February 06, 2010, 02:51:31 PM)
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Author Topic: Handle during delivery  (Read 2943 times)
Zuschauer
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« on: December 14, 2008, 10:31:51 AM »


Once again at this years Europeans, I noticed a lot of players starting with a straight handle, then for example turning it clockwise during delivery, stopping and then giving the actual anti-clockwise delivery before the release.
This is opposed to the technique I learned, where you start with your handle on the "10" or "2" o'clock position when you start your delivery in the hack.

Can anyone explain to me the advantage of starting out with a straight handle and doing that clock-wise, anti-clockwise (or the other way round for the other handle) thingy?
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strathydoug
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« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2008, 08:29:50 AM »

The only thing I can think of is that when starting at 7 o'clock and turning once only, like I do, doesn't put enough of a positive handle on the stone sometimes, like I do Smiley

The other delivery forces a more positive handle in my experience, tried it for a couple of weeks then switched back, and that is perhaps why especially on particularly sensitive ice.

Just my 2 cents
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Doug
jmlb
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« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2008, 07:51:55 PM »

Because of the problems with the stones / ice interface at the Europeans manyof the players were ensuring that there stones ran truer by giving them a 'harder' handle than normal. The normal 'soft' handle delivery of some players was not being retained and stones were 'losing their handle'.

Ask Andrew Reed of the English team for his rant on this!!!!
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John M L Brown
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« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2009, 01:20:55 AM »

I think it just comes down to technique in the end , it could be they are doing it without realising it.
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Bob Agg
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« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2009, 04:30:19 PM »

most folk do this on their out turns to stop dumping them in like david edwards does.  Tongue
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LG
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« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2009, 10:59:07 AM »

The theory is that if you are throwing any particular line then you should always slide on the same line regardless of what handle you are throwing.  Therefore your setup should always be the same.  quite often you will see someone set their stone up on the outturn at 2 o clock and their stone set up position will be half a stone to the right of where they set it up on the outturn.  Because of this it causes them to slide on different line.  Its not so much to do with release but consistency of your slide path.

Its a more complicated technique so therefore its not generally taught. 
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strathydoug
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« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2009, 11:03:27 AM »

I've been self helping with a curling site online that has been very useful in correcting some delivery problems, I also had a little feedback re the handle on my delivery and now I tend to give a much more positive handle as a result
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Doug
wee eddie
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« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2009, 06:01:24 PM »

Advice on the Number of Rotations and the method of applying them has changed over the years. I am coming to the conclusion that different types of Shot need a different number of Rotations, but not necessarily.

I can also say, with confidence, that any two Players can successfully play a similar shot in a variety of different ways, which also suggests that my first conclusion is wrong!

What does this mean? It means that no-one really understands why a stone curls or what forces are working on it.

If you play consistently, your Skip will "know" how your rocks behave and give you the Ice that s/he expects will get the result required.
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JohnMinnaar
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« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2009, 06:14:46 PM »

What does this mean? It means that no-one really understands why a stone curls or what forces are working on it.

That's not entirely true, Eddie. The problem is this: the ice surface is variable from rink to rink, and so are the stones, and so therefore the interaction between the two. Some stones will need more rotation and others less, and some ice will need more handle and other ice less. It is the sheer complexity of the whole thing taht creates the confusion!

But if you give me a set of naturally matured stones and a decent rink, I'll make the ice to suit and meet the specifications for draw and weight, with the same handle, all the time!
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wee eddie
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« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2009, 07:26:18 PM »

JM you are absolutely correct ~ but we, the Players, have only 16 shots to find out what is going on and don't have the benefit of a tame Boffin at the beginning of each game to give us whatever parameters would be needed at that Rink, for that particular sheet and that particular pair, of that particular set, of Stones.

What I am trying to say is that whatever you delivery, so long as it is consistent, it will be the Skip's job to use his/her judgement as to how your Stone will behave. Even at Olympic Level, no two players deliver a Stone identically, which is why a Team, that has been playing together for a while, tends to achieve more consistent results.

I hate IMHO ~ What I have said above is in the nature of "My Opinion" and is based on nothing more than general observation while playing and watching others play. I refuse to be "Humble" about my opinion. I could easily be wrong, and frequently am, but wouldn't have Posted if had not thought that there was a "truth" in there.
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JohnMinnaar
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« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2009, 09:27:19 PM »

Eddie, what you are saying is that players don't have the time to mess about learning about stones and ice. You're right. Teams that stick together (definitely NOT a la selection process!) have the advantage in that they share this very instant learning process. Roll on the TRUE game of curling!

In the past, ice was highly variable, the stones less so. Teams who could read -- and agree -- on the ice, would have a serious advantage. This has changed, the ice has become considerably more consistent, especially at international level. Unfortunately the stones are now being manipulated to compensate for the remaining ice deficiencies, directly related to deficiencies in building design and technician competence. The best building in the world can make good curling ice, but without a competent curling-ice technician go hire a freezer.

All this is totally unnecessary. Give us the building and the job, we'll show you how. If we don't get the building and the job, ask yourself why not.

Sorry, I'm not in a good mood. I miss Bob.
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onthebutton
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« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2009, 01:46:41 PM »

most folk do this on their out turns to stop dumping them in like david edwards does.  Tongue

You've obviously not watched a lot of my games sir as that's one thing I can't be accused of!  I maybe tend to square the odd one or two on the out turn  Roll Eyes
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Bob Agg
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« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2009, 09:16:25 AM »

sorry davie, i meant dump them in like your brother used to do!
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onthebutton
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« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2009, 01:38:28 PM »

sorry davie, i meant dump them in like your brother used to do!

It's a talent.  He's the only man I know who could dump an outturn like that  Wink
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